Reposted From London Free Press – 2009/08/26
http://lfpress.ca/newsstand/News/CanadaWorld/2009/08/26/10613866-sun.html
(They are horrible at archiving, so I have reposted it rather than just linking it)
Trash-talking bloggers warned of perils
Wed, August 26, 2009
A court battle to ID a name caller is cited as a wake-up call
By THE CANADIAN PRESS
MONTREAL — Anonymous bloggers who like to trash talk online should brush up on the latest cyber etiquette, say legal experts.
The recent case of a Canadian model who won a court battle to reveal the identity of a nasty name-calling blogger should be a wake-up call about the legal implications of sharing derogatory opinions online, said lawyer David Fewer of the Canadian Internet Policy and Public Interest Clinic.
“It should be an eye opener for most people,” Fewer said yesterday. “They are not nearly as anonymous on the Internet as they think they are.”
Liskula Cohen, a former model for Vogue and Flare magazines, won a court order in New York that forced Google to unmask the identity of a blogger, who had called her a “skank” and made other off-colour comments about her online.
Cohen has since dropped a multimillion lawsuit against the blogger, saying it wouldn’t add anything to her life. Meanwhile, the blogger, Rosemary Port, is suing Google for violating her privacy by revealing her name.
Fewer said Canadian courts, as well as courts in many other jurisdictions, will likely give people the opportunity to launch similar court battles to reveal the secret identity of an online persona or the person behind an online publication.
“If you’ve got a non-frivolous legal claim you are entitled to your day in court,” said Fewer, acting director of the clinic, based at the University of Ottawa.
Cohen’s lawyer, Steve Wagner, said the case has struck a chord with people and he expects to see more of them end up in court. “It goes well beyond just trash talking.
Now, as you can see, she gave up this nonsense AFTER exposing the author. I guess that is some sort of victory. I am not exactly sure how I feel about this. I have no problem giving my name to anyone who wants it … but that isn’t really why I reposted this. I think what struck me is that apparently the person making the accusation that the model is a skank (among other things – I have no idea who she is) was identified, but there were no court proceedings that made the model prove she was not a skank. I mean, I know it is all point-of-view, but “unmasking” someone because of slander, but not PROVING there was slander? Is it because the person was a model? I have a problem with people who choose to be in the public eye complaining that they are in the public eye.
Of course, this is just my humble opinion.
Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 at 09:58
LOL, I see that the blogosphere is alight with talk of this – all three “possibly related posts” are absolutely related.
Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 at 11:19
Maybe she knows she is a skank and just wanted to know if it was an old fuck that was talking shit…She can’t argue with the facts, she was just curious I guess. LOL
And how exactly do you prove that you are not a skank? Is there some sort of Skank Test?
I guess this whole thing it stupid to me cause I don’t really care what anyone calls me on the internet. I do care if what they say actually affects my business, but they can slander me all they want. I know who I am and I don’t care what anyone else thinks…
Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 at 15:00
I know how one could prove they ARE a skank…….
Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 at 15:03
Katie has two heads, everyone. Just an FYI.
Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 at 15:06
By the way, I’m not sure I’ve ever said this, NIAC, but that is a really cool icon. I’m 100% serious.
Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 at 17:50
You mean your icon?
Wednesday, Aug 26, 2009 at 19:29
I… uh… nygh… Yeah. My icon. *sigh* Old people…
Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 at 10:15
Hmmm, you know if you decide to become a model/actress/dancer/etc. in a way you are marketing yourself. If someone gives you a bad product review…well constructive criticism FTW! Seriously, if some unknown person on the web called you a skank, why not create an account, ask said person why they called you a skank, (without them knowing it is you), then point out the reasons she/he is wrong about it and give them a virtual slap in the face. If you can’t and their reasoning is all true…well then what the heck is the problem?
Man, do you have any idea how many people I have called ‘jerks’?
Luckily for me all those people really are jerks! I am pretty sure I could prove it in a court.
Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 at 11:29
I challenge you to prove it!
oh wait…no….you know me too well…
Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 at 12:56
Ah, but is ‘Skank’ really CONSTRUCTIVE criticism? Even if it does qualify, that’s not what the blogger meant by it.
Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 at 17:59
Who really cares? I mean, there is plenty of other stuff to worry about then ‘name calling.’ Are these girls 5?
Thursday, Aug 27, 2009 at 18:14
Maybe she’s really insecure. Though I still agree, it’s quite an overreaction.
Saturday, Aug 29, 2009 at 12:43
LOL, did I mention that the person calling her a skank is actually a FRIEND of hers. This is why courts should stay out of shit. Two catty bitches having a feud makes headline news because it sets a precendent that no person on this planet (except the RR’s) ever wanted to come to light?
Monday, Oct 26, 2009 at 18:23
well, I just found this blog, and I guess you all don’t actually get the entire point. First of all, she said a lot more defamatory things than the names you have mentions. So all I had to prove was that it was indeed defamatory. As for pursuing the lawsuit with the blogger, there was simply no point. I just really wanted to know if the blogger was the man that stabbed me in 2007, as this blog was first found the exact month that he was released from jail. Secondly, we are not “friends”, we do not hang out, we have completely different circles of friends, but we have on a few nights been at the same events.
Last but not least, this had a huge effect on my career, I am just starting to pick up the pieces now. We asked Google a million time to simply remove it, but they wanted a court order, it was their game not mine…They thought they were going to win, and they have won many in the past. I just hope that people will try to be kinder to others. I never did anything to this blogger, she had no reason to do this to me, and she has admitted that to me over and over again. Sorry the media doesn’t write the actual truth of the matter, but what can I do. I cannot tell you how she defamed me, as I would just be doing it again… But trust me when I say that the media took three or four scandalizing words and made it into what you read, but don’t they always do that?
Monday, Oct 26, 2009 at 20:02
As I was a moderator for a large members-only site, where feelings were often hurt (which I understand) please believe me when I say I completely understand your point of view.
However, your feelings – even your career – are now considered precedent-setting and have now allowed anyone to simply go to court to make people “pay” for their opinion. That means, of course, that your comment left here – I can now, because of this damning precedent – seek an injunction and even remuneration simply because you put your comment in my blog.
I would never do that, of course, because it is not in my nature. But now, it is possible.
Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 00:57
hmmmm….I guess what you are not understanding is that defamation is not someone’s personal opinion. Defamation is stated as fact, the author has full intention of voicing something as fact and truth. The point being if you are writing something, unless clearly stated as opinion one has to assume that what they are reading is truth. if not, where in the world would we be?
“seek an injunction and even remuneration simply because you put your comment in my blog”…. I don’t even know what to make of this statement. Everything I write is what I believe wholly to be fact and truth. I am not simply voicing an opinion or commenting to defame or hurt anyone, I am trying to make people understand that I have really not done anything that has not been done before in America, my situation just got media attention, because of my job. Google has and will continue to receive orders to show cause, and will unmask bloggers when need be. And in the end the bloggers will be responsible for Google’s legal fee’s, just as my blogger has. So her free blog, was not so cheap. Internet users and bloggers should read all of the fine print…That is my advice.
Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 08:56
“… defamation is not someone’s personal opinion …”
It absolutely is.
“… writing someting, unless clearly stated as opinion …”
Writing something is absolutely, without any doubt, the author’s opinion. In fact, without making quotes identifying that certain parts are NOT the author’s opinion, the author is guilty of academic fraud in the form of plagiarism.
“… I don’t even know what to make of this statement …”
- and -
“… everything I write is what I believe wholly to be fact and truth …”
Don’t be self-righteous. Had you actually used the same fake name twice in my blog, [potentially] Miss Anonymous, I would argue the point. However, you chose – as your claimed friend-turned-enemy did – to hide behind a name. How odd that you choose to do it now, yourself. Somethign that you chose to seek legal recourse to undo.
“… I am trying to make people understand …”
Until I heard about someone who took Google to court and won a case in which someone was identified, I had no idea who you were. In fact, I doubt that many people did. Additionally, I do not know any more about you (this assumes that the two comments left here are actually by the “injured party”), what you do, what you have done, or what may become of you.
“… America …”
I do not know what that is. I know of the United States of America. I have heard of North America, South America, Central America. I live in Canada. According to the article, you live in Canada. In fact, the article seems to convey that the CANADIAN courts arrived at this decision. Perhaps you should educate me as to why you used that word, “America”.
If this actually is you, Liskula, I do NOT dislike you. I am not sure that I understand how knowing who wrote it saved your career, or how it was damaged. My interest in this case was that a person may claim, for example, that I am violent individual that beats my spouse or children.
I do not understand how I can get a court order to find out who said it, without first proving it was true or not. Even your own definition is that if written, it is assumed to be true.
Thursday, Nov 05, 2009 at 12:50
ok…lets me try to clear all of this up…first of all when i come to your blog my id info is already there, i do not know why it sometimes goes from liskula to liskulagc, but both are in fact me. Its probably because sometimes I use Safari and sometimes I use firefox.
Anyway they are both me… A lot of people in the blog sphere have used my name to comment, I don’t know why, and I don’t know how to prove this is me. And you probably don’t care that much.
Anyway, sorry for assuming that you were American (as in Yankee) which is what I meant. I too am Canadian, but I live in NYC. So…
“… defamation is not someone’s personal opinion …”
In law, defamation – also called calumny, libel, slander (for spoken words), and vilification (for written or otherwise published words) – is the communication of a statement that makes a claim, expressly stated or implied to be factual, that may give an individual, business, product, group, government or nation a negative image. It is usually, but not always, a requirement that this claim be false and that the publication is communicated to someone other than the person defamed. Another important aspect of defamation is the difference between fact and opinion. Statements made as “facts” are frequently actionable defamation. Statements of opinion or pure opinion are not actionable. So all I had to do was prove that what was written about me was and could be viewed clearly as actionable defamation. Which was easy, but for any reader of this story, it may not be so cut and dry. As the actual defamatory things statements that were written were never publicized. As to not defame me further. Are you following?
As for you not hearing about me, this is part of my point. I am a regular citizen like you. I am not famous and never wanted to be. People that are famous have a much harder time getting to the bottom of these things, however unfair that may be.
Like I said before I am a Canadian citizen living in the United States, I do not know why this article implied that all of this took place in a Canadian court because it was actually the New York Supreme Court that heard my case. I guess that just goes to show how much misinformation is out there on the Internet and in our local new papers. Not a lot we can do about it, just have to realize that most news sources are unreliable.
As for how you can get a court order if someone writes something so terrible about you like you suggested, you only have to show cause to prove it is actionable. And the truth is always easy to prove, and blatant defamation is easy to see. This is EXACTLY why I went forth with my case. So many people are out of jobs and losing their livelihoods and families over defamation and lies about them on the Internet. And I honestly feel like this needs to be stopped, after my case hit the news that I won I have received over a thousand e mails from people going through the same thing. men that can no longer see their children, have lost their jobs all because of someone writing and spewing hate on a blog or web site. So now because of my case they do have recourse. Sure there are still a lot of people out there that are a little nutty, but for the actual victims for the people who can’t sleep or pay their bills because of the damage that ruined their reputations on the Internet, I am happy to say that now they have a way to fix it. They say that my case was the first, but it was far from the first, mine was the only one that Jose Martinez (the journalist from the Daily News in NYC) found news worthy. His exact statement was “the tabloids love the internet and models, and this story had both”. If I had known that he was going to write an article about it, I probably would not have gone forth with it.
So how did this blog ruin my career, well… if you had seen the actual blog you would understand. But needless to say my job requires a clean reputation, a model that works for the clients I work for needs to maintain that. I worked in my industry for nearly 20 years without any tarnishes to my reputation, then this blog hit, and my client asked me about it. As word travels fast in the fashion industry I wanted to have the blog taken down, but Google (who from day number one) said it was clearly defamatory, said they needed a court order to take it down. So we got one. Did the news of all this hinder my work, absolutely, it did a lot more hard than good until the judge made her decision in my favor. Now the people in my industry see that I am being proactive in helping others in the same situation. I have spoken at different Universities and am going to go to capital Hill to propose a bill to congress with an ex Vice Presidents of the Untied States. I am not trying to end or destroy the freedom of speech, I am just trying to make people know the rules. You can say whatever you want about anyone you want, but it has to be clear that it is a personal opinion. Nobody has the freedom to defame. In some countries my blogger would have been looking at seven years in prison for what she wrote about me, the ironic part is that if we were in her native country of Korea she would be in a small cell right now… We are blessed to live in North America, and to have our freedoms, unfortunately some people take advantage of that.
Anyway I have to go…
I hope its not too cold up there yet.
I am from Toronto via London Ontario, and go there for the holiday’s every year and for a few weeks in the summer. But this year I am making an extra trip in late January to speak at UWO. So thats exciting…
Saturday, Nov 07, 2009 at 17:51
Not too cold yet, and thank you for visiting, and commenting, Liskula
I am from London, myself.
I actually stopped subscribing to an RSS feed from the CBC because their online news was not only becoming quite biased, but also being rewritten as time wore on. I do not really trust any news source: I try to get stories from many points of view before trying to figure out for myself what is fact, and what is, as you know personally, not quite accurate.
This is why I thank you for commenting. The actual details of your particular case are not what I was interested in, as I mentioned, but you do make a good point when highlighting the fact that the article in which I had an interest was based on a lot of bad information.
Sorry I can’t be more verbose (at least not right now) but I, too, have so much going on that I haven’t much time to do anything.
Let me know (I don’t mind advertising for a “local girl”) when you are at UWO if it is open-invite, and what it is for. If you want to, no pressure.
Saturday, Nov 07, 2009 at 18:12
aw your from London….sooo cool…I was born at St Joe’s, grew up in South London and went to Wortley Road PS…funny right…lol…My Grandparents had a furniture store there for 52 years, maybe you heard of it, Jensens? They were on King St for years then moved out to Hyde Park Road…
I dont know if the forum will be open to the public but I am sure I can invite a few people. So I will indeed keep you posted…
Be well
And when you find a reliable news source for North America please let me know…lol…Kinda sad but whatever.
I am actually in talks with pat Obrien and a few others about a tv program dedicated to tell the actual truth. Sort of a crazy idea, but maybe it will work.
ok…gotta run…
Lis